English Title Problems

[El]

I'm sorry if I placed this in the wrong category, but I wasn't really sure where to post this since it involves an anime series with fanlistings in more than one category (Series, Characters, Songs). I hope it's alright that I posted it here instead.

I'd like to apologize in advance for nitpicking like this, but I just thought I ought to point out a possible mistranslation. :blink:

I do a lot of editing over at Wikipedia, and in the discussion page for the Le Chevalier D'Eon article, someone pointed out that Le Chevalier D'Eon would be more appropriately translated to "D'Eon the Knight" and not "Knight of Eon", because "'D'Eon' is his name, and not a place" (you can take a look at what the person said here). I did a bit of research on my own, and no official sources state the real translation of the title. Yes, some sources like ANN and a few online reviews may say that the English translation of the title is "The Knight of Eon", but neither the page about the series on Production I.G's English website nor website for the series' English DVD release provides a translation. I asked two friends of mine who know how to speak French what they think about the matter, and both said that although one would probably translate the title as "The Knight of Eon" at first glance, the fact that the main character is a knight named D'Eon changes the context and makes it more appropriate to translate it as "D'Eon the Knight".

Oh, and I don't know if this bit is important, but the official Japanese title of the series is Chevalier: Le Chevalier D'Eon (this is apparent in the series' official Japanese website and in the series' logo/title image itself), but the English dub was released as Le Chevalier D'Eon.  :wacko:

EDIT: And I just noticed that I forgot to note my other suggestion: Perhaps it would be better to just leave the series as "Le Chevalier D'Eon" instead of including one of the translations since there aren't any other sources to actually verify which among the various translations is more appropriate.  :wave:

[Mitzrael]

if it's okay to step in ^^; as I am French xD Le Chevalier D'Eon could possibly be translated in both ways depending on "Eon" meaning.
If it's referring to a person, thus d'Eon (being his complete name) the Chevalier then it should be : D'Eon, the Knight, however, if "d'Eon" as in "de-Eon" which refers to coming from a place or organization, then it should be : the Knight of Eon. Then again, there's a small linguistic glintch, since "d'Eon "could also be a concept/idea or even refer to someone protecting/have attachment with Eon as in "de-Eon" in a possessive way,  so technically, even "Eon's Knight" could be valid as well *sweat*

I'm not into Le Chevalier d'Eon fandom and I've barely watched 2 episodes, but if I remember well, his sister's soul did posess his brother or something like that o.o and became the knight or his "inside" knight? sorry if it's confusing ^^; so all 3 translations could apply depending on the context the title comes from, just like you pointed it previously.

>.> does this really affect how it's listed or something ? *confused*

edit: it's really hard to tell if the title is really referring to his name, D'Eon, or d'Eon the place/posessive if they just capitalize the whole title ^^;;;

[El]

[quote name='Mitzrael' post='222611' date='Dec 16 2007, 11:40 AM']if it's okay to step in ^^; as I am French xD Le Chevalier D'Eon could possibly be translated in both ways depending on "Eon" meaning.
If it's referring to a person, thus d'Eon (being his complete name) the Chevalier then it should be : D'Eon, the Knight, however, if "d'Eon" as in "de-Eon" which refers to coming from a place or organization, then it should be : the Knight of Eon. Then again, there's a small linguistic glintch, since "d'Eon "could also be a concept/idea or even refer to someone protecting/have attachment with Eon as in "de-Eon" in a possessive way,  so technically, even "Eon's Knight" could be valid as well *sweat*

I'm not into Le Chevalier d'Eon fandom and I've barely watched 2 episodes, but if I remember well, his sister's soul did posess his brother or something like that o.o and became the knight or his "inside" knight? sorry if it's confusing ^^; so all 3 translations could apply depending on the context the title comes from, just like you pointed it previously.

>.> does this really affect how it's listed or something ? *confused*

edit: it's really hard to tell if the title is really referring to his name, D'Eon, or d'Eon the place/posessive if they just capitalize the whole title ^^;;;[/quote]
That's what my friends said; neither of the translations are incorrect...it's all a matter of context. Personally, I've seen the whole series and there really is no mention of anything to do with "eon" (i.e. the word "eon" isn't even mentioned in the series), so I'm thinking that perhaps it would be better to just go with "D'Eon the Knight" what with the main character being a knight named D'Eon and all that. XD There's also the thought that perhaps the series' creators just took the historical figure's title (Chevalier D'Eon) and just added a "Le" for some reason, but there really aren't any sources to prove that. XD

It actually does affect the way it's listed because the series' title is currently listed in the TAFL network "Le Chevalier D'Eon" in the Series category but is listed as "Le Chevalier D'Eon (The Knight of Eon)" in the Characters and Songs categories.  

[Kylara]

Wiki isn't a good website to go off of; staffers will generally take whatever ANN says before they'd consider what Wiki says.  For now I'm going to change how it's listed in the Series category (and I'll check to see if there is anything in Relationships) to the same as how it's listed in Characters--I don't see any reason to change it to another translation though.  There are 3 different ones and it seems like any would be acceptable, so I'll leave it with what ANN says

If any other staffer comes to a different conclusion it may be changed at a later time, but that's what I'll do for now ^^;;

[El]

[quote name='Kylara' post='222631' date='Dec 16 2007, 01:36 PM']Wiki isn't a good website to go off of; staffers will generally take whatever ANN says before they'd consider what Wiki says.  For now I'm going to change how it's listed in the Series category (and I'll check to see if there is anything in Relationships) to the same as how it's listed in Characters--I don't see any reason to change it to another translation though.  There are 3 different ones and it seems like any would be acceptable, so I'll leave it with what ANN says :wacko:

If any other staffer comes to a different conclusion it may be changed at a later time, but that's what I'll do for now ^^;;[/quote]
I know that Wiki isn't that reliable a source, that's why I asked people who actually speak French about it. :-/ I guess my main reason for pointing it out it would be that the possible confusion with regard to the series' content, because, as I've said, the series has nothing to do with a place called "eon" or even the word "eon" for that matter.  :blink:

EDIT: And I just noticed that I forgot to note my other suggestion: Perhaps it would be better to just leave the series as "Le Chevalier D'Eon" instead of including one of the translations since there aren't any other sources to actually verify which among the various translations is more appropriate.  

[Kylara]

I'm not seeing how/why how we have it listed here would confuse people on what the series is about.  I doubt many people go through our list and base what an anime/manga is about purely on the title.  If anything, it would cause less confusion because although there is debate on the actual translation, apparently, there is no official translation and this is what most websites are calling it. I'm doing what I see best for the time being, and I feel that listing it how websites such as Anime News Network list this series would cause the least confusion because that's what it's known as, even if there is no place referred to as Eon in the series.

I've taken what both you and Mitzrael have said into account when making this decision, and as I've said, other staffers are more than welcome to put their input in on this as well.  Being both a Series & Relationships category staffer though, I like my series titles to reflect what ANN goes off of.  Should anything official be released I'm sure both ANN and our listings will reflect that new information.

I apologize if this response is a bit snippy; it's late here and I just wanted to make my explanation as clear as possible ^^;;

[Mitzrael]

That's okay Kylara :blink: I was just helping with my 2 cents of French lol sometimes it still is useful   *pops-off*

[Shalott]

I am going to interject with my opinion here. I think the series title would be best left as Le Chevalier D'Eon without any English translation. As far as I can tell, ADV does not plan to translate the title in it's releases and as already pointed out, Production I.G. calls it Le Chevalier D'Eon on it's English website. The manga is being released in the US as Le Chevalier D'Eon. The translation on ANN's website seems to be more of a courtesy than any sort of official notation.

It is interesting to note that in an English publicity statement, for which I could not find the original source but the ANN link is here, Production I.G. apparently translates the title as Knight D'Eon, which put into better English would become D'Eon the Knight.

Anyways, like Kylara said, there has been no official translation so no real reason to change the way it is listed other than aesthetics. However I will say I have never heard the series referred to as The Knight of D'Eon OR D'Eon the Knight by anyone, official or not.

[Rosemary]

[quote name='Shalott' post='222672' date='Dec 16 2007, 07:26 PM']I am going to interject with my opinion here. I think the series title would be best left as Le Chevalier D'Eon without any English translation.[/quote]

I agree with this.